The best fireworks occurred in the last half hour. Emphasis here is mine.
Transcript courtesy of the New York Times.
This came early, but I just had to say ….
SANDERS: You once had a pension. Those jobs, in many cases, are now gone. They’re off.
True, but a lot of us have 401Ks and 403Bs in place of the pensions, making all of us a little bit Wall St. as it were. The argument should be against the GOP privatizing Social Security similarly. Don’t demonize where I now everything I worked for. I need Wall St. to be healthy, but fair, clean, and legit.
WOODRUFF: Welcome back to the Democratic presidential debate. Before we
return to our questions, we have a follow-up question from our Facebook group.
And it is to Senator Sanders
Senator, it comes from Bill Corfield. He is a 55-year-old musician from Troy,
Ohio. And he asks: “Are there any areas of government you would like to
reduce?”
SANDERS: Hey, I’m in the United States Senate, and anyone who doesn’t think
that there is an enormous amount of waste and inefficiency and bureaucracy
throughout government would be very, very mistaken.
I believe in government, but I believe in efficient government, not wasteful
government.
IFILL: How about you, Senator Clinton — Secretary Clinton?
CLINTON: Absolutely. And, you know, there are a number of programs that I
think are duplicative and redundant and not producing the results that people
deserve. There are a lot of training programs and education programs that I think
can be streamlined and put into a much better format so that if we do continue
them they can be more useful, in public schools, community colleges, and
colleges and universities.
I would like to take a hard look at every part of the federal government and really
do the kind of analysis that would rebuild some confidence in people that we’re
taking a hard look about what we have, you know, and what we don’t need
anymore. And that’s what I intend to do.
SANDERS: If I could just answer that, we have also got to take a look at the
waste and inefficiencies in the Department of Defense, which is the one major
agency of government that has not been able to be audited. And I have the
feeling you’re going to find a lot of cost overruns there and a lot of waste and
duplicative activities.
Format did not permit Hillary to respond further. That was the cut-off. Hillary was not allowed another word here. But I would point out that Hillary initiated the first-ever such analytical process to streamline the State Department, the QDDR, as Secretary of State, and certainly will apply that model to all government agencies as POTUS. She has already done this and knows how! I wish she could have talked about that.
CLINTON: But I want to — I want to follow up on something having
to do with leadership, because, you know, today Senator Sanders said that
President Obama failed the presidential leadership test. And this is not the first
time that he has criticized President Obama. In the past he has called him weak.
He has called him a disappointment.
He wrote a forward for a book that basically argued voters should have buyers’
remorse when it comes to President Obama’s leadership and legacy.
And I just couldn’t agree — disagree more with those kinds of comments. You
know, from my perspective, maybe because I understand what President Obama
inherited, not only the worst financial crisis but the antipathy of the Republicans
in Congress, I don’t think he gets the credit he deserves for being a president…
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: … who got us out of that…
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: … put us on firm ground, and has sent us into the future. And it is a —
the kind of criticism that we’ve heard from Senator Sanders about our president I
expect from Republicans. I do not expect from someone running for the
Democratic nomination to succeed President Obama.
SANDERS: That is…
(APPLAUSE)SANDERS: Madam Secretary, that is a low blow.
(As if never in this campaign cycle has he ever delivered a low blow.)
(Hillary gives him Carrie-at-the-Prom face via Sissy Spacek.)
I have worked with President Obama for the last seven years.
Note to Senator Sanders: That is very unstable territory.
When President Obama came into office we were losing 800,000 jobs a month, 800,000
jobs a month.
We had a $1.4 trillion
deficit. And the world’s financial system is on the verge of collapse.
As a result of his efforts and the efforts of Joe Biden against unprecedented, I
was there in the Senate, unprecedented Republican obstructionism, we have
made enormous progress.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: But you know what? Last I heard we lived in a democratic society.
Last I heard, a United States senator had the right to disagree with the president,
including a president who has done such an extraordinary job.
So I have voiced criticisms. You’re right. Maybe you haven’t. I have. But I think to
suggest that I have voiced criticism, this blurb that you talk about, you know what
the blurb said? The blurb said that the next president of the United States has got
to be aggressive in bringing people into the political process.
That’s what I said. That is what I believe.
(APPLAUSE)
SANDERS: President Obama and I are friends.
As you know, he came to
Vermont to campaign for me when he was a senator. I have worked for his re-
election. His first election and his re-election.
But I think it is really unfair to suggest that I have not been supportive of the
president. I have been a strong ally with him on virtually every issue. Do senators
have the right to disagree with the president? Have you ever disagreed with a
president? I suspect you may have.
(APPLAUSE)
CLINTON: You know, Senator, what I am concerned about, is not disagreement
on issues, saying that this is what I would rather do, I don’t agree with the
president on that, calling the president weak, calling him a disappointment,
calling several times that he should have a primary opponent when he ran for re-
election in 2012, you know, I think that goes further than saying we have our
disagreements.
As a senator, yes, I was a senator. I understand we can disagree on the path
forward. But those kinds of personal assessments and charges are ones that I
find particularly troubling.
IFILL: Senator, if you would like respond to — you may respond to that but it is
time for closing statements and you can use your time for closing statements to
dpolicies he carried o that.
SANDERS: Well, one of us ran against Barack Obama. I was not that candidate.
No he was not – in 2008, when Obama was a senator. That was when HIllary ran against Obama as a fellow senator. The election when Bernie planned to primary President Obama was in 2012, when he was, you know, president.
SANDERS: Where the secretary and I have a very profound difference, in the
last debate — and I believe in her book — very good book, by the way — in her
book and in this last debate, she talked about getting the approval or the support
or the mentoring of Henry Kissinger. Now, I find it rather amazing, because I
happen to believe that Henry Kissinger was one of the most destructive
secretaries of state in the modern history of this country.
(APPLAUSE)
I am proud to say that Henry Kissinger is not my friend. I will not take advice from
Henry Kissinger. And in fact, Kissinger’s actions in Cambodia, when the United
States bombed that country, overthrew Prince Sihanouk, created the instability
for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge to come in, who then butchered some 3 million
innocent people, one of the worst genocides in the history of the world. So count
me in as somebody who will not be listening to Henry Kissinger.
(APPLAUSE)
IFILL: Secretary Clinton? CLINTON: Well, I know journalists have asked who
you do listen to on foreign policy, and we have yet to know who that is.
SANDERS: Well, it ain’t Henry Kissinger. That’s for sure.
CLINTON: That’s fine. That’s fine.
(LAUGHTER)
You know, I listen to a wide variety of voices that have expertise in various areas.
I think it is fair to say, whatever the complaints that you want to make about him
are, that with respect to China, one of the most challenging relationships we
have, his opening up China and his ongoing relationships with the leaders of
China is an incredibly useful relationship for the United States of America.
(APPLAUSE)
So if we want to pick and choose — and I certainly do — people I listen to, people
I don’t listen to, people I listen to for certain areas, then I think we have to be fair
and look at the entire world, because it’s a big, complicated world out there.
By the way, Bernie, do not insult us. We do know who Mossadegh was. I wonder how many of your millennials know who Henry Kissinger is. I know Hillary’s millennials do. Many of us remember his service and have issues with some policies he carried out under Nixon, but here’s a reminder: He was secretary of state, not secretary of defense. Blaming Kissinger for bombings in Cambodia is like blaming Hillary for bombings – anywhere – while she was secretary of state – a diplomatic post.
Secretary Clinton Accepts Freedom Award in Berlin for the American People
November 9, 2009
Henry Kissinger, left, former U.S. Secretary of State, hands over the Freedom Award ” in recognition of their fight for democracy and liberty” for the American People to U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, right, during the Freedom Awards Ceremony of the Atlantic Council in Berlin, Sunday, Nov. 8, 2009. (AP Photo/Gero Breloer)
Still4Hill 
Secretary Clinton talked and looked like a president last night. I could say something about sanders and that finger pointing at her all the time, but let me say he looks and acts like an angry old man. She has command of the facts and will make a very good president. The young who follow sanders care nothing about facts. Go to Daily Kos and read. It will make you sick at first, next you get scared that they nose rap up about Hillary. This is his base! Scary and dangerous.
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That’s why I don’t go to Daily Kos.
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Secretary Clinton totally won the debate lastnight.
Sen.Sanders – if Pres.Obama is YOUR FRIEND, and he has made so much progress, why do you still criticize and put him down so much the way you do? And why exactly is it a “low blow” to call you on your duplicity and lack of support for the PRESIDENT and LEADER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY? (Low blow is coded word to appeal to men). And, BTW, then Senator Hillary Clinton ran against then Sen. Obama and he was already in the race. She did NOT run against PRESIDENT Obama. YOU suggested that SOMEONE should run against YOUR FRIEND and sitting PRESIDENT Obama in 2011-12.
Sen.Sanders, in your 35 years, you have accomplished little. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has accomplished a ton and more even when she did not hold an official (paid) office. Shaking your finger and showing your anger only betrayed that you got beat off-center.
Sen.Sanders flunked the test yesterday. Yet, every major media outlet is playing up as though Sanders did well – they are pandering to the very young who are convinced they will do well under the shower of free stuff. I hope they GOT IT yesterday that Bernie would grow the government another 40%. A 40% expansion of the government would effectively suck the oxygen out of the economy and stifle the future of the country. And, exactly how does he plan to do that with this layout of the House and the Senate — the two arms with which he has not been very cooperative in getting anything significant accomplished in his very long career in the Senate? Well, yeah, you have to elect majority Dems to both houses, right? Pipe dream for now. In any case, without the ability to work with both parties and make compromises, nothing will get done. And, without listening to experts and people with expertise and experience on the other side (like Secy. Henry Kissinger), one doesnt make the best policy decisions. Go into your own vacuum and you will get NOTHING done, like you have amply proved over the past 35 years. Honestly, your best and most memorable contributions were your long marathon speeches on the floor to obstruct some bill or the other — while those DO have a role, they are precisely NOT compromise and working with the other side to make things happen. You failed, Sen.Sanders. Shaking your finger at legitimate debate arguments does not make you into a better candidate for President.
Secretary Hillary Clinton won the debate fair and square, ON EVERY QUESTION, tone, substance, skill, argument, counter-argument, point by point, and in summation.
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One could quite literally see Sanders stress level every time his Flying Fickle Finger of Fate started wagging. Pockets can be your friend too, Bernie.
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His Flying Fickle Finger of Fate! Love it.
Last night was a clear win for Hillary both in what was said as well as the optics. Hillary Clinton never seems to wear down, She looked energetic, decisive and ready for the moment. Sanders on the other hand looked and sounded ragged and worn out. The coughing fits didn’t help. But the man’s rambling into history lessons bordered on the bizarre. Those ‘low blows’ he complained about? He walked right into them with his remarks to the press, specifically that President Obama had failed to fill the leadership gap. He didn’t think anyone would bring that up?
I was a good night for Hillary and her supporters. This is what a President looks and sounds like.
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“Slow and steady won Clinton the debate” – Scott Lehigh, opinion – Boston Globe
http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2016/02/12/slow-and-steady-won-clinton-debate/IpTG0vSD1lTs4wOpJeTZGK/story.html
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Why is Nevada tied! I might throw up! What the H is going on?
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Even fivethirtyeight.com Nate Silver has them tied! Crap! Crap! Crap! How does Hillary compete with FREE everything and evil Wall Street! Help me!
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uh, not so reliable a poll. But the other side did start ad campaign early – about a week before we did (as they did in Oklahoma also). Hillary’s ads in NV Spanish started a couple of days before NH primary. So, we should begin to see some turnaround.
In any case, outgoing Sen.Reid is saying that we can expect a tight race to the finish and a brokered convention…
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I wouldn’t go crazy on that new poll. It’s from the Washington Free Beacon, an outfit renowned for its sleazy delivery. If we see a trend? Then it’s time to worry about a message promising free milkshakes for life and pony rides. And the quality of critical thinking in 2016.
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I agree, but Nate Silver has them tied with one week out! My understanding is Silver does not use crap polls! So crap! Tied in any poll is crap!
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I don’t think there’s any doubt Sanders got some momentum from NH, so the race is likely to be close in NV. Hillary’s campaign is also lowering expectations there, which is probably smart. My guess is her campaign is looking to win big in SC and carry that momentum into Super Tuesday three days later.
Another thing that could keep Sanders hanging around for awhile is that he’s raising more money than he knows what to do with.
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I agree, Dakota. Silver is pretty careful in what he puts out there. So, yes worrisome. But I want to see verification from other pollsters. Then I’ll join you in crazy land because if true, something is going on that we do not understand. I cannot believe the the American public has rolled this far into dangerous delusion. Sanders on one end, Trump on the other.
The one thing I have read is that Hillary’s Nevada ground game is fierce. And Robby Mook has a giant reputation as a primo organizer. So . . .
We wait and keep the faith.
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Peggysue22 , I have taught American History and I cannot explain this one! I believe it has to be the free college as I have had high students terrified of tuition. But sanders is not telling them the truth? He cannot deliver on anything. As one writer put it, sanders is nothing but,”rainbows and unicorns.” All of this is dangerous talk and sanders knows he is lying and does not care. He has a large ego to feed.
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Yes, it IS the free college stuff. Unfortunately the media circus these days only lets people follow the hype and not let them develop analytical skills to think for themselves.
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Another thing that can’t be overlooked: Hillary is facing an onslaught from the GOP, the media (a willing purveyor of GOP smears) and the Left. I have NEVER seen a primary candidate face these kind of venomous attacks. I’m not saying her campaign has been perfectly run, but Sanders is without a doubt the beneficiary of all this, which is exactly what the GOP wants.
For example: The rumors that Hillary will be indicted are naturally complete garbage, but the point of them is to suppress her vote and make them switch to Sanders because he seems safe. And this is the worst kind of smear because “reputable” news organizations breathlessly report it and there’s no way Hillary can prove it’s not true.
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That’s right. And people fall for it.
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High school students, that may or may not have been high! I have seen a lot over the years!
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We knew what you meant. 😉
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The free college tuition seems to be the lure. I listened to one young woman, a 20-year old say as much. She said she couldn’t wait 4 years to catch a break on tuition. But here’s the rub as you noted, Dakota: there’s no way Sander’s can wave a magic wand and make all tuition go away instantly. It’s not going to happen and to lie to these kids will only further disillusion them about our political system, which is messy and lumbering and slow by its very nature. The political revolution Sanders refers to is a fairytale of his own making. True revolutions are bloody nightmares, not sweetness and light.
If this trend is real I will be heartsick and seriously worried about what direction the country is moving in. Because Sanders would be eviscerated by the GOP. And The Donald as POTUS is too horrible to even consider.
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This is what he tells them:
– “We need a revolution in the way higher education is funded, and we must fundamentally restructure our student loan program.” as he calls for an end to “the practice of the government making $127 billion over the next decade on profit from student loans.”
He has recently called for tuition-free courses for freshman and sophomores at public universities, and suggested closing tax loopholes for corporations as a means of paying for it. –
Okay, sounds good and they think that if he gets into the Oval office all their college loan debt will disappear and free tuition based on taxing corporations will all be brought about by a wave of his magic Presidential Powers wand. He allows them to think this because it’s his ticket to the Oval or because it sounds so Norwegian that he can’t help himself being so enamoured as he is by all things Scandinavian.
He does provide a caveat though … they must help him accomplish this by forming a revolution. That way, if he fails, it will be their fault for lacking in revolutionary zeal.
It is a cruel deception.
And then there is healthcare ….
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It IS indeed a cruel deception by Bernie Sanders. Especially because he cannot get it done, and it would actually take Hillary Clinton to get anything done on the education front.
Firstly, let’s not forget that EVEN healthcare could not be made into a fundamental right via the SCOTUS… At best, we got a limited endorsement for the Federal Govt to regulate aspects of commerce in the interest of public health. It is clear that SCOTUS will not take up even matters of health (with clear life and death implications) into a RIGHT.
How can we get SCOTUS to back up the Federal govt getting into the business of education??? This is NOT happening.
So, Secy. Hillary Clinton is absolutely right. The next President will need to work with the State governments i.e., the Governors, to influence any aspects of education. In fact, they would have to pony up the money. The influence of Federal govt in this would be far lower than in healthcare.
And, let’s remember, the State governors (who are mostly Repubs) will not cooperate with a self-declared socialist. So, doing anything on the education front would require a non-socialist Democrat, AND, someone with a record of getting things done with compromises along the way. Yep, getting anything done at the State level would require Hillary Clinton.
With so many private companies (and 501c(3) are also private entities — even local community colleges are 501c(3) entities) — no, education will not become free, especially with state govts being led by Repubs at the helm. So, the best shot is LOWERING the cost of education, making education opportunities available and reachable… (no shame lanes) and that’s Hillary Clinton’s approach. It is practical. It is reasonable. And it works, because she knows how to wheel and deal across the spectrum to reach policy goals.
And, I havent even gotten to ‘nothing is ever free’ argument.
Secy. Hillary Clinton’s approaches are comprehensive involving also private and financial entities.
The youth that wants “free” education needs Hillary to lower the cost of education.
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If you check out the Free Beacon, you will see it is very right wing and dedicatedly anti Hillary.
That is apparently a push poll and not reliable.
And BTW by what legal process will the federal government make college free?
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>> And BTW by what legal process will the federal government make college free?
EXACTLY!!!
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And BTW by what legal process will the federal government make college free? – Helen
With Sanders’ Presidential Powers magic wand. All Scandinavian fairy tales mention the wand and his plans are nothing but fairy tales.
Hillary Clinton is trying to talk sense to people who want to believe in fairy tales.
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I thought Hillary won the debate decisively. She was really on her game with new messaging, which I thought was quite good. She was very knowledgeable, smooth, and effective – quite presidential. I can imagine her being commander in chief. I thought Sanders had a good message on Wall Street, the rigged economy and campaign finance, but lacked foreign policy heft among other things, and didn’t show a very presidential demeanor. Actually, at times he seemed rude toward Hillary, kind of shouting at her and making faces, especially when she brought up his criticism of Obama. Can you imagine what the press would say if she wagged her finger at him and scrunched up her face shouting?? Anyway, there was a Nevada Democratic focus group assembled by Chris Kofinis (look on his twitter), a democratic strategist, and 25 out of 34 people thought Bernie won the debate. I can’t believe they watched the same debate I did! The only part they thought Hillary won was foreign policy. So 14 of them said they were going to caucus for Bernie and 9 for Hillary. The one saving grace for Hillary was that 25 out of the 34 thought Hillary was more electable. I am just so baffled. I see the most prepared, qualified candidate ever to seek the presidency – who could make history – and she seems to be absorbing all the bad stuff and none of the good. I can’t help but feel much of this is due to gender dynamics trying to break the glass ceiling. Also the media has framed all things Hillary in a negative way while not vetting Sanders. What are people thinking – or are they even thinking? One lady in the focus group said Sanders satisfied her on his level of foreign policy last night as she was worried he had none previously. Go figure.
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Also, oddly, The PBS twitter tweeted exclusively quotes from Bernie and none from Hillary. That was weird and I called them on it. No response.
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I find it odd. Chris Kofinis was on CNN or MSNBC talking about the focus group and they showed clips of the one lady talking about foreign policy and the rest of the group raising their hands to see who won the debate. The lady thought Bernie was just fine on foreign policy last night. I’m thinking to myself, “Really?” Then I looked up Kofinis’s twitter online and found some of the other information from the focus group. Who knows if they were registered Dems or Independents?
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So 14 of them said they were going to caucus for Bernie and 9 for Hillary. – suzie2
Sanders tells people what they want to hear and thus they follow him insisting his ignorance is as good as Clinton’s knowledge. It is bizarre but a common occurrence throughout history.
Her job is to break through that wall of ignorance with facts, figures, and common sense. She’s fully capable of handling the job. It is good practice for the general election when she’ll be facing off against Trump and his cult of wall builders.
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It is a fascinating phenomena to watch..there’s Hillary..calm,knowledgeable,clear. Then there’s Bernie practically foaming at the mouth,wagging his finger;vague as all get out.
Even the pundits afterwards were hard pressed to be complimentary of Bernie. When Gloria Borger,Anna Navvaro and David Gergen are complimentary of Hillary..well then dang;she won the debate. ( Plus loved when Gloria called out Bill Press when he chastised Hillary for saying,”When I’m president.” “Wait a minute,” says Gloria,” The guys say that all the time.” Sweet !)
Low and behold,by morning all the coverage is edited to make Bernie look better..so the media is doing it’s best to control the image of what people see. In a world where messages have to fit into 140 characters;apparently the current generation’s attention span…what can she do? She’s getting attacked by the media,the left and the right.
Let us hope some in the media will step up and do their jobs re: vetting Bernie. I see reflections of ’08 when the media was afraid to vet Obama. I don’t think they’re as afraid of Bernie;but someone’s pulling the strings.
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Yes, I watched the CNN pundits and they were all pretty much with Hillary on this one. Bernie is a decent guy but he’s not presidential at all. I’m not sure he has the temperment for the job. I’m wondering what people are seeing that they think he won the debate. So puzzling to me. I keep thinking of his response to the race relations question. He basically said something about the billionaires and creating jobs for kids so they wouldn’t have to hang out on street corners. I’m thinking, “Huh??”
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